Śrīla Prabhupāda Drove Nirvisesa-vāda And Śūnyavāda Away From The Western World.

Śrīla Prabhupāda Drove Nirvisesa-vāda And Śūnyavāda Away From The Western World.


Founder-Ācārya: His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

The following lecture on Śrīmad Bhāgavatam Canto 2, Chapter 9, Answers by Citing the Lord’s Version, Text 38, Given By His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami in Iskcon Ujjain 11 January 2008.


o namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
namo bhagavate vāsudevāya
namo bhagavate vāsudevāya

Nārāyaa namasktya
caiva narottamam
sarasvatī vyāsa
tato jayam udīrayet

devī sarasvatī vyāsa
nitya bhāgavata-sevayā
bhagavaty uttama-śloke
bhaktir bhavati nai

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, so which verse did we do yesterday, text 37. How many of you have memorized that verse? Okay, Daivasakti raised her hand first, let’s hear her.

Devotee: “etān mata samātiṣṭha paramea samādhinā bhavān kalpa-vikalpeu na vimuhyati karhicit”

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Okay, very good. So, and Rādhā Vallabha’s hand went up the last. So let’s hear Rādhā Vallabha recite.

Devotee: “etān mata samātiṣṭha paramea samādhinā bhavān kalpa-vikalpeu na vimuhyati karhicit”

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: karihicit

Devotee: karihicit

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Okay, another thing, Daivishakti! what is the difference between dānta sha, talibya sha and mūrdhanya sha? Dānta sha is sa and bangle te sab sha is shaw but in Sanskrit the difference between sa, sha and sha, dānta, talibya and mūrdhan. It’s not in shamadhina it is samādhinā, sa. So take note of that, especially the Bengali devotees. There is a sa, dānta sa, sa and Aishvarya talibya sha [Unclear]

Devotee: [Unclear]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: ota uccharan kothai ṭheke hai, tālibya tālu ṭheke sha and murdhana māne, brain ota ara besi, jemun shri shuka uvācha.

Word for word:

śrī-śuka uvāca — Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; sampradiśya — fully instructing Brahmājī; eva — thus; ajana — the Supreme Lord; janānām — of the living entities; parameṣṭhinam — unto the supreme leader, Brahmā; paśyata — while he was seeing; tasya — His; tat rūpam — that transcendental form; ātmana — of the Absolute; nyaruat — disappeared; hari — the Lord, the Personality of Godhead.

So the meaning of this verse then is:


Śukadeva Gosvāmī said to Mahārāja Parīkṣit: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, after being seen in His transcendental form, instructing Brahmājī, the leader of the living entities, disappeared.

So Sukadeva Gosvāmī said, sampradiśyaivam ajano

Devotees: sampradiśyaivam ajano

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Okay, ācha, here the English has been divided into two words.

Mahārāja recites once and devotees recite three times all the words and then each line of the verse

śrī-śuka uvāca
sampradiśyaivam ajano
paśyatas tasya tad rūpam
ātmano nyaru
ad dhari

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Okay, so what is the first line? Okay

Devotee: sampradiśyaivam ajano

Other devotees: repeat three times

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Then the first word of the second line.

Devotee: janānā parameṣṭhinam

Other Devotees: repeat three times.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: What is the first word of the third line?

Devotee: paśyatas tasya tad rūpam

Other Devotees: repeat three times.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Okay, what is the first word of the fourth line? Okay, ke ke hath tule che, okay tumi bolo

Devotee: ātmano nyaruad dhari

Other Devotees: repeat three times.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: I can see that many of you have been preparing yourself. How many of you memorized the verse already? Okay, so few today, just two and how many of you will memorize it tomorrow? Okay, thank you. Okay, “

śrī-śuka uvāca
sampradiśyaivam ajano
paśyatas tasya tad rūpam
ātmano nyaru
ad dhari

Word for word:

śrī-śuka uvāca — Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī said; sampradiśya — fully instructing Brahmājī; eva — thus; ajana — the Supreme Lord; janānām — of the living entities; parameṣṭhinam — unto the supreme leader, Brahmā; paśyata — while he was seeing; tasya — His; tat rūpam — that transcendental form; ātmana — of the Absolute; nyaruat — disappeared; hari — the Lord, the Personality of Godhead.

Translation by His Divine Grace Śrīla Prabhupāda

Śukadeva Gosvāmī said to Mahārāja Parīkṣit: The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, after being seen in His transcendental form, instructing Brahmājī, the leader of the living entities, disappeared.

Purport by Śrīla Prabhupāda

In this verse it is clearly mentioned that the Lord is ajana, or the Supreme Person, and that He was showing His transcendental form (ātmano rūpam) to Brahmājī while instructing him in the summarization of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in four verses. He is ajana, or the Supreme Person, amongst janānām, or all persons. All living entities are individual persons, and amongst all such persons Lord Hari is supreme, as confirmed in the śruti-mantra, nityo nityānā cetanaś cetanānām. So there is no place for impersonal features in the transcendental world as there are impersonal features in the material world. Whenever there is cetana, or knowledge, the personal feature comes in. In the spiritual world everything is full of knowledge, and therefore everything in the transcendental world, the land, the water, the tree, the mountain, the river, the man, the animal, the bird — everything — is of the same quality, namely cetana. And therefore everything there is individual and personal. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam gives us this information as the supreme Vedic literature, and it was personally instructed by the Supreme Personality of Godhead to Brahmājī so that the leader of the living entities might broadcast the message to all in the universe in order to teach the supreme knowledge of bhakti-yoga. Brahmājī in his turn instructed Nārada, his beloved son, the same message of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and Nārada, in his turn, taught the same to Vyāsadeva, who again taught it to Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Through Śukadeva Gosvāmī’s grace and by the mercy of Mahārāja Parīkṣit we are all given Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam perpetually to learn the science of the Absolute Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: So in this verse, in the text Prabhupāda is emphatically pointing out that how the Absolute Truth, the ultimate Absolute Personality of Godhead is a Person. God is a Person and when there is a personality, there is form. So, Prabhupāda is very particular about this point, because there is a gross misconception floating nowadays in the form of impersonalism and voidism, nirviśeavāda and śūnyavāda. Voidism has been- has become prevalent through Buddhism and nirviśeavāda or māyāvāda has been established through Śaṅkarācārya’s teachings. Now previously many times we discussed that why, why did it happen? Why Lord Buddha who is an incarnation of God came and propagated the theory like śūnyavāda, voidism, sunya– everything is nothing. Śūnya means zero, and zero means nothing. So, ultimately everything will become nothing. Why did Lord Buddha do that? How many of you remember that? Why Lord Buddha preached śūnyavāda? Kevin?

Devotee: Because those days the brāhmaas were performing sacrifices, they were slaughtering animals [Unclear]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: You mean, those days prior to that brāhmaas did not perform sacrifices and slaughtered animals?

Devotee: They did but by the power of the Vedic mantras they could bring back to life.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Yes, very good. Yes, prior- there is a custom; there is a Vedic practice of animal sacrifice in a sacrifice, yajña, but the purpose of the sacrifice was to test the efficacy of the yajña, and by performing that, by slaughtering or by sacrificing an animal, the animal used to get either a new body or used to become elevated to the heavenly planet and then one could understand that the sacrifice had been completed or such sacrifice has been successfully completed, but with the advent of the age of Kali what happened? The so called Brāhmaas started to slaughter animals, not to deliver the animals, but to eat the flesh of the animals. And in this way all kinds of animals were unnecessary were being, I mean, the animals were unnecessary being killed, just to satisfy their tongue and that’s why the Lord appeared as Buddha to stop this animal sacrifice. What is the verse? How do you prove that? That what I say, can it be established in the Vedic understanding? Okay, Gaṅgā Nārāyaṇa

Devotee: Dasavatāra Stotra.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Okay, what is the verse?

Devotee: nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jāta

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: śruti-jāta

Devotee: śruti-jāta

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: sadaya-hdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam

Devotee: – sadaya-hdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam keśava dhta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: okay, nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātaṁ,  śruti-jāta means from the Vedic scriptures. The animal sacrifice that has been prescribed in the Vedas in the name of that excuse, these animals are being slaughtered and seeing that the animals are being slaughtered in this way, sadaya-hdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam- the soft and tender heart, the merciful heart of the Lord was afflicted and that’s why He decided to stop this animal sacrifice. Now, when something… if you want to stop something, then best way to stop it is by, by deal with the root of that. Yajña viddhi in the name of yajña viddhi the animal sacrifice was going on and what was the excuse? The Vedic scriptures. So, what did the Lord do? Like, appearing as Lord Buddha he rejected the Vedas. In the name of the Vedas the animal sacrifice was going on; so, the best way to stop is- if you want to stop this light what do you do? Do you take all the bulbs one after another? That is one way of doing that but that will take long time, that’s a difficult way. So, easier way is just go to the switch and switch it off. So Lord Buddha did that; no need for the Vedas and what did he teach? He taught the principle of adharma. He taught the- actually in the name of dharma He has taught the principle okay, let’s put it this way. He taught the principle of dharma in the sense there are ten good activities, ten appropriate activities. What are those activities, ten good activities? Tell the truth, do not inflict pain on anybody and so forth. Just as in Christianity also, there are ten commandments. Actually old testament, Moses received those ten commandments of God. So, Buddhism also has ten principles. Don’t tell a lie, always stay on the path of righteousness and so forth. I don’t remember them.

And the philosophy, their philosophy is: the ultimate goal of life is to attain nirvāa . The goal of life- if you follow this path then ultimately you will reach  nirvāa  and  nirvāa  is; what is  nirvāa ? This philosophy is, Buddhist philosophy is that all the pains are caused by the body. The body we have suffering. So, if you don’t have the body, if it becomes nothing, then there will be no suffering. The suffering is caused by our existence. So, if we do not exist, then we will not have suffering. Our existence is full of sufferings, so, if we don’t exist then we won’t have any suffering. So, the ultimate goal of life is to become nothing or to merge into nothing, ultimately there is nothing that is what Buddhist philosophy is. That’s why it is called śūnyavāda or voidism, void; ultimately everything is void, śūnya. So, you have to merge into void, śūnya, you have to become nothing: then there won’t be any suffering. Then, in this way, the Lord fulfilled His purpose, He stopped the animal sacrifice. But then came- the Lord Himself instructed Lord Śiva that I have established this voidism and in order to do that I have rejected the Vedas. But now, to achieve certain purpose I have done that but now you re-establish the Vedas.

You accept that and in order – why there is a need to re-establish the Vedas? Because unless and until one follows the Vedas one will not understand God. veda nā māniyā bauddha haya ta’ nāstika. Because the Buddhist do not accept the Vedas, therefore, they are nāstik– atheist; because although they are actually accepting God as Buddha, but they have become nāstika. There is some positive aspect: they are following Buddha. But, because they are not following Vedas they have become nāstik, because in the – because unless and until one approaches the Vedas one will not have any understanding of God. vedaiś ca sarvair aha eva vedyo. What are the Vedas meant for? Vedas are meant to reveal the identity of God. So, if one doesn’t accept the Vedas, one will not be able to know God. In the Vedas there is a very clear and precise understanding of God. In no other scripture, the identity of God has been, the identity of the Supreme Personality of Godhead has been revealed. Like, often we discussed, like, Christianity accepts God, but do they have any information about God? Who is God? No. Judism accepts God but who is God? No idea. There Judistic understanding is there. God the Father who came to Moses and gave the thing in the burning bush, but what is His Form? No idea. And Islam says, don’t even think of His Form, don’t even think of Him. You cannot think about Allah, accept Allah but you cannot think of Him, why? Because there is no information about Allah.

That’s why it is so important to establish the – it became so important to establish – the Vedas. That’s why the Lord instructed Lord Śiva and that’s why He came as Śaṅkarācārya – māyāvādam asac-chāstra pracchannah baudham ucyate mayaiva kalpita devī kalau brāhmaa-rūpiā, “In the age of Kali appearing as a brāhmaa, I will establish a temporary philosophy, temporary conclusion: asac-chāstra”. What is the name of that asac-chāstra or temporary conclusion? Māyāvāda, māyāvādam asac chāstra pracchannah baudham, which is pracchannah which is covered Buddhism. Buddism is covered atheism and māyāvāda is covered buddism. But he needed to do that? Why he needed to do that? So that the Vedas can be reestablished; to reestablish the Vedas he did that and how did he do that? It is interesting to note : the buddist are saying  nirvāa  is the ultimate goal of life and what is  nirvāa ? It is to become nothing and Śaṅkarācārya came and he said, look this concept of nirvāa  is not your concept, it is from the Vedas. And according to the Vedas,  nirvāa  actually means to merge into Brahman, to merge into the Absolute. Buddist are saying to merge into nothing; Śaṅkarācārya is saying merge into the Absolute, and what is Absolute? Absolute is Brahman? And what is Brahman? Brahmā is nirākār nirvises, Why? Because…. otherwise the Buddhist will not accept it. They will say you brought in the concept of Form. Then the Buddhist will say, well that is your understanding, not ours. But he took their point,  nirvāa , okay,  nirvāa  means not to merge in the void,  nirvāa  means to merge in the Absolute or Brahman; What is Brahman? Brahman is Absolute. The goal of life is not to become nothing; the goal of life is to become everything. So, Śaṅkarācārya just took that to the opposite extreme, and in this way, he established the Vedas and when the Vedas were established, then came Rāmānujācārya and Madhvācārya and they established the personalistic concept. So it was necessary. Śaṅkarācārya’s, which was been established in Caitanya Caritāmṛta. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was, when He was teaching Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, He pointed out that tar doa nāhi teho ājñākārī das. There is no problem. Actually it is not a fault of Śaṅkarācārya because he is following the orders of the Lord. He is simply following the orders ājñākārī das. As a servant he is following the instructions of the Lord. That’s why he established Māyāvāda to achieve the purpose. But if one follows the misconstrued idea of māyāvāda, then māyāvādi-bhāya śunile haya sarva-nāśa, tar doa nāhi teho ājñākārī das māyāvādi-bhāya śunile haya sarva-nāśa.

So, so in this way it is a gradual progress and… well, an example can be given. When you have a disease, then you are given the medicine and you know, in most cases what the medicine is? The medicine is poison. In most cases, the medicines are actually poison. But this poison acts an antidote to the disease, curing this disease. If you have a disease, then you can take the poison for the disease, but if you are a healthy person then if you take that medicine then what happens? You are taking poison and what does poison do? Poison destroys you. Poison saves a diseased person, but the same poison, that same medicine which was actually saving the diseased person, will kill an ordinary person who is healthy and strong. So, in order to rectify the diseased condition, Śaṅkarācārya’s Māyāvāda was necessary at that time, but that should not be followed; that concept is not meant to be followed otherwise. In order to achieve some purpose and what was the purpose? Why Śaṅkarācārya established Māyāvāda? To reestablish the Vedas, to reinstate the Vedas, to bring the Vedas back.

Actually if you go back during Śaṅkarācārya’s time, when he came, the whole of India became Buddhist. That was the influence of Lord Buddha. The entire India actually became Buddhist under the patronage of… It started with King Aśoka. The whole of India became Buddhist and it reached even other countries. He sent his preachers to Tibet, to China, to Southeast Asia, to Śrī Laṅkā. He actually sent his own sister to Śrī Laṅkā to preach, Sanghamitra. And in this way Buddhism actually spread. But then Sanakaracarya came, not an ordinary person, Lord Śiva Himself, and who were the followers of Lord Śiva? We can still see them, like during Kumbha Mela, we can see this Nāga sannyāsīs, the followers of Lord Shiva, Lord Shiva. There are different types of followers of Lord Śiva. In one hand there are peaceful people but also Lord Śiva’s associates are the ghosts and hobgoblins. So, they also came and they- like Lord Śiva, Śaṅkarācārya not only reestablished the Vedas by defeating the Buddhists, he also had another group who were not so peaceful. They had their tridents in their hands and like, they were actually very ferocious. I mean Śaṅkarācārya established Māyāvāda or defeated Buddhism, not only by preaching and defeating, but those who would not accept the defeat in that way, these nāgas were used to drive them out, to take care of them. So, it is said that… Anyway let’s not get into that, I mean. And the result was that Buddhism was driven out from India, Buddism was driven out of India. Today we hardly see any Buddhist in India, we hardly see any Buddhist in India and that was because of Śaṅkarācārya. And in this way, he reestablished the Vedic Scriptures and the Vedic practices. Then came Rāmānujācārya. He defeated or pointed out the flaw of Śaṅkarācārya’s Māyāvāda. Māyāvāda is Kevala Advaitavāda. Kevala means only [Unclear]  but Rāmānujācārya established his theory of Viśiṣṭā advaitavāda viśiṣṭā advaitavāda and in this way he pointed out the flaws in Śaṅkarācārya’s Māyāvāda or Kevala Advaitavāda and that we considered few times before also.

Anyway I will give the essence of that. Śaṅkarācārya’s Kevala Advaitavāda is pointing out that all the forms are material. The variegatedness in the material world that is seen is material but beyond this material nature, Brahman, which is the cause of creation of this material universe is advaita, is Brahman, and Brahman does not have any form. Brahman doesn’t have any quality, and Brahman doesn’t have any variety. Ultimately it is all Brahman and in Brahman there is no duality, its one everything, is one Kevala Advaitavāda, and the form and variety and everything that we perceive in the material nature is māyā and māyā means illusion. And illusion means to think of something which is actually not. Illusion- mirage is an illusion. In the middle of a desert the sand becomes hot and it appears to be oasis, appears to be water. That is mirage. A rope is mistaken to be a snake, that is illusion. He then, this way, he gave examples of illusion or māyā, but Rāmānujācārya came and pointed out. He defeated Śaṅkarācārya’s theory very systematically. I mean easy way to understand is, that he is saying that mirage is mistaken to be water and he is saying that okay, mirage is -mirage appears to be water and it’s not water, but somewhere water is existing that’s why there is mistaken concept of mirage to be water. The snake may not be there in the rope, but somewhere the snake is existing that’s why you are mistaking rope to be snake. So, where is that real form? Yes, fine this form is illusion. This is māyā, yes fine. But somewhere this original form is existing and that’s why we are mistaken where is it? It is in the spiritual sky. And this material nature is a reflection of the spiritual sky. So in this way Rāmānujācārya pointed out, defeated Śaṅkarācārya’s Kevala Advaitavāda and established, through establishing viśiṣṭā advaitavāda, he established the variegatedness of the spiritual reality. Spiritual sky is not nishabdik nirākār; the spiritual sky is full of variety; the spiritual sky is full of form, spiritual form.

And then Madhvācārya came and he established dvaitavāda, material nature and spiritual nature: the two different natures altogether. This material nature is the external energy of the Lord and spiritual nature is the internal nature of the Lord. Material nature is the reflection in the elements of the- or in the reflection in matter but the reality is the spiritual sky. So, in this way there was an apparent conflict between Śaṅkarācārya’s Kevala Advaitavāda and Vaiṣṇava’s viśiṣṭādvaitavāda or dvaitavāda or dvaitadvaitavada. I am sorry Mādhavācārya’s is dvaitadvaitavada, not dvaitavāda, dvaitadvaitavada.

And then Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu came and harmonized these two conflicting concepts through his acintya bheda abheda tattva. Acintya and there is a simultaneous there is a bheda and abheda “difference and non-difference” and what is the difference or say what is the non-difference? What is the abheda? Abheda is both are spiritual, the jīvas are spiritual and īśvara is spiritual. But the Jīvas are minute, īśvara is absolute. Qualitatively they are same but quantitatively they are different. Both are saccindananda both are spiritual, jīva is spiritual, īśvara is spiritual but the jīvas is minute and īśvara is absolute, just like a drop of water is water and the ocean is also water. So, the drop of water is qualitatively one with ocean, but the ocean is the vast reservoir. Will anybody call a drop as ocean? No, although it’s water, but similarly jīvas are always jīvas although spiritual but īśvara is always īśvara; Jīvas can never become īśvara.

And nowadays we see so many misconceptions flowing-so many people come and oh aap bhi bhagavān hai. You are also God, everyone is God. Is everyone God? It’s because of that misconception that ultimately everything is Brahman; so, there is no harm in saying that everyone is Brahman, because there is no God, everything is ultimately Brahman and what is God then? What is īśvara or what is Nārāyaṇa? what is Viṣṇu? They all are in the mode of, Jīva is in the mode of goodness, rather Brahman in the mode of goodness; everything is Brahman “ sarvam khalv ida brahmā” but Brahmā in the mode of ignorance are the jīvas. Brahman in the mode of passion are jīvas; may be brahman in the mode of ignorance are animals; brahman in the mode of passion are humans, and brahman in the mode of goodness is Nārāyaṇa, God. So that is there misconception but then when brahman will become free from the mode of goodness then it will become Brahman. So, Nārāyaṇa will become ultimately Brahman. All the forms are the God’s or incarnations; they are in the mode of goodness and the sannyāsīs are also in the mode of goodness, they will also become Brahman when they become free from the mode of goodness. So that misconception is still prevalent. Now it is important to see. What did Śaṅkarācārya do? Śaṅkarācārya drove away Buddhism out of India. Now it is important to know what is Prabhupāda’s prāṇam mantra, the second part of Prabhupāda’s prāṇam mantra.

Devotees: nirvisesya śūnyavādi pāścātya deśa tārie

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: nirvisesya śūnyavādi pāścātya deśa tārie.

Śrīla Prabhupāda drove away nirviśesa-vāda and śūnyavāda from the western world. Western world is in the grip of nirvisesa-vāda and śūnyavāda, “impersonalism and voidism”. So Śrīla Prabhupāda came to drive away this impersonalism and voidism and when it is driven out of the west, it is driven out of this world, because that is the seat of nirvisesa-vāda and śūnyavāda, but unfortunately in India also now Prabhupāda drove nirvisesa-vāda  and śūnyavāda out of the pāścātya deśa, but what is happening with India. Now India is in the grip of nirvisesa-vāda and śūnyavāda. Now who is going to drive it out? Anyway nirvisesa-vāda and śūnyavāda, we have to make it a point to drive it out of India. Now off course Śaṅkarācārya also had nāga sannyāsīs but we don’t have; our sannyāsīs are not going to take to violence. Nāga sannyāsīs did take to violence actually, to drive out Buddhism, but that’s why Caitanya Mahāprabhu came with a very special weapon. What is the weapon that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu came with?

Devotees: Nāma prema.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Yeah, nāma prema, nāma which is prema, with love and propagation of the holy name, which is synonymous to love of Godhead. This negative effect which is actually establishing or prevailing in this world in the form of adharma will be eradicated. Sometimes people wonder why are we so strong against māyāvāda? Because that’s our business; we cannot tolerate that concept -aap bhi bhagavān hai, main bhi bhagavān, aap bhi bhagavān, sab bhagavān. Main bhi bhagavān, aap bhi bhagavān, sab bhagavān, kevala bhagavān bhagavān nāhi hai. Keval Kṛṣṇa bhagavān nāhi hai, baaki sab bhagavān hai. That is the unfortunate conclusion. So, we have to remove that misconception by establishing proper siddhānta. We are prepared to discuss with anybody, prepared to discuss with anybody, come let’s discuss and don’t worry, we are not going to get into an unpleasant conflict. We are not going to discuss, like, okay, come [Laughter]

Devotee: [laughter]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: You also talk sense, we also talk sense and let us see what is the right understanding. Can anybody defeat Rāmānujācārya’s points? What he is pointing, the defects that he is pointing out in Māyāvāda, a rope, the example of rope and snake and mirage, Brahm, rājate.. I am sorry, sukti te rajat brahm, maricikāya jal brahm and raju te sarpa brahm; that brahm but why is that brahm? Brahm is there, mistake is there, illusion is there, but the point is somewhere the real thing must be existing that’s why mistaking the reflection to be real. So, that’s why it’s so interesting to preach. Of course, India, early India had one very nice system; when they used to follow the Vedic culture, there was a system, that if you are defeated by somebody, then you have to accept his siddhānta. If you are defeated by somebody, you have to accept him as a superior; you have to surrender yourself to his teachings; you have to accept him as your guru and become his disciple, but nowadays that’s not happening. They keep on arguing. And that was, like, the qualification was the consideration, okay, you want to discuss on the basis of the Vedas. Have you studied Vedas? How many Vedas you studied? One Veda, Okay, you are a Vedi. You become expert in two Vedas, you are a dvivedi or Dubey, Vedi, Dubey, we have these titles now; then Trivedi and Chaturvedi [Laughter]. And then we have to end, the discussion must take place on the basis of the Vedas. Now they don’t on the basis of Vedas; they discuss on the basis of science; such and such scientists say this is right. Such and such scientist came, such and such scientist came and said that man come from monkey and ultimately everything came from Dinosaurs and so forth and then they are making movies. They are even more authentic; I have seen it in the movie, so it must be Absolute Truth. In the movies they have said that, from a Dinosaur’s fossils, from a Dinosaur’s fossil another Dinosaur could be created. I have seen it in a movie ‘Jurrasic Park’.

Devotees: [Laughter]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: So that must be Absolute Truth. So, this is how the whole society has become confused and now to bring them to the right understanding is not going to be an easy task. So, we have to become convinced about the reality and then pursue that reality, that course of reality and educate others, with this understanding and we are seeing, intelligent class of people are responding all over the world. Those who are- many followers of Śrīla Prabhupāda and many devotees of Iskcon coming from very well versed, well educated background. Your name is Narottama. Narottama means engineer, right? So, he is an engineer, he is a full time devotee. Why did you accept it?

Devotee: [Unclear]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: I thought Darwin’s theory is very appealing.

Devotee: [Unclear]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: So, Prabhupāda’s teachings actually pointed out the defect of Darwin’s theory. Like, there we can see that, these people in the name of science they are cheating people, they are cheating. Did they ever prove? Did they – for so many years they have been established, it’s over for 200 years now or at least 150 years, but in 150 years did we see a single monkey becoming a human being?

Devotees: [Laughter]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Did we ever see a monkey giving birth to a human being? So, the monkeys are still here, human beings are still here. If it was an organic evolution, then why didn’t all the monkeys become human beings? With time with evolution all monkeys now should have been human beings; there shouldn’t have been any monkeys left, but the reverse is working. The human beings are giving birth to monkeys nowadays.

Devotees: [Laughter]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Human beings are becoming monkeys and they say, life comes from matter and we asked them to prove it. Life comes from matter. They say that life actually came from certain chemical combination, assembled in some condition, some atoms and molecules became together and life came. So, if that is your theory why don’t you prove it in your laboratory? Show; all the chemicals are available. Why don’t you create life out of that? They say we will do it tomorrow, just now coming, and it’s going on for now hundreds of years, just now coming. Prabhupāda used to call it giving a post dated cheque. You don’t have money in the bank account. You give a post dated cheque. Today I don’t have money; tomorrow I will put money in the bank and then you can put the cheque. And this post dated cheques are being given which are never going to be cashed. All kinds of cheating going on in the name of science and they are substantiating okay, we have invented so many things. Yes you have invented something, but the bottom line, we are not saying that you don’t deserve any credit. Yes, we give you credit. But what we cannot accept is you are saying that matter is the origin of life. Life comes from matter. Just accept that simple concept, life comes from life. If a living father uniting with a living mother gives birth to a living child. Can dead matter give birth to a living body? Or, can a dead matter give birth to a dead matter also? If you put this table and bring another table and put it next to this table will there be a third table born out of that? So, let us accept the fact that life comes from life. And then when the body- when the soul leaves the body, what happens? It becomes dead body. Okay, you can’t create another new life but why not make the dead body alive? All the chemicals are there, so, why do they not bring a dead body to life? You can’t do that and ultimately Prabhupāda gave a challenge that what to speak of life, just produce one grain of rice in your laboratory. You don’t have to create human beings, just produce a grain of rice, produce a seed of a tree in your laboratory that you are planting in the soil another tree comes out; produce just one such tree, but you can’t. So, why are you unnecessarily arguing with that? And then everything becomes easy if you accept the soul being non material, the soul being spiritual, then another dimension, another world opens up, that is the spiritual reality. The soul comes from the spiritual sky.

Now let’s go to the spiritual sky and see what the spiritual sky is like. Spiritual sky is full of spiritual beings and the Supreme Spiritual being is God. Very simple conclusion; even a child can understand that. So that is the thing that has been pointed out here in the purport. Śrīla Prabhupāda emphatically pointed out that impersonalism is an evil that is prevailing in the society that has to be removed. This misconception must be rectified. The world has made a lot of progress but this progress will become properly effective when people recognize the existence of God and recognize themselves to be the servants of God and become engaged in His loving service, then the whole world will become such beautiful place. But in spite of so much progress, look, what we have today. In spite of so much progress there is so much violence there is so much terrorism and they are not going to decrease, if we follow the course of, if we follow the course of this atheistic concept, then the world will become more and more violent. There will be more, terrorism will become more and more prevalent, but if we accept this concept of spiritual reality and our existence continuing beyond this life and our goal is to go back to the spiritual sky where we came from, then everybody will become so effectively engaged in this pursuit of this ultimate goal and then the world will become such a beautiful place. Thank you all very much. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. Does anybody have any question? Yes, Ārti.

Devotee: Mahārāja, you said that humans are becoming pigs [unclear]. Yesterday on the internet there was a news saying that great breakthrough has come in genetically modifying the pigs so that their organs can be transplanted with humans.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: [Laughter]

Devotee: [Unclear]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Well, they need that, the pig’s organs to become a, to behave like a…, I mean they are behaving like a pig, now that they are and actually what will happen eventually, those who are behaving like a pig they don’t have to transform the pig’s organ. They will get the body of a pig. Maybe you can tell that, respond that in the internet, don’t have to trouble so much; don’t have to worry so much and take so much trouble. In course of time you will get an entire pig’s body, with all the pigs’ organs to become a perfect pig.

Devotee: Mahārāja [Unclear] What I can’t understand is that Buddha managed to convert the whole of India to Buddhism and then Śaṅkarācārya’s teachings had very huge effect by practically destroying Buddhism.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Did not destroy but driving it out of India

Devotee: yes driving it out and then it seems Rāmānujācārya’s teachings have less effect as Māyāvādīs are so so huge all over and then Mādhavācārya, [unclear] they followed and they progressively brought the understanding to a higher plane. Now it also seems that, the purer the philosophy became the smaller the audience became.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Okay, very good point, very good point. You know why? Because this is the age of adharma; Because this is the age of adharma, adharma is prevailing and dharma is suffering. Now what do we have to do? We have to establish dharma and the Lord has appeared in the form of His holy name. So, let’s spread the holy name and dharma will be established.

Devotee: Also, Mahārāja I think, they are teaching through centuries to get established and we have started Iskcon only forty years, so we have to lot of [unclear]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Their teachings

Devotee: No, their teachings, teachings of Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, their teachings took centuries to get established and [unclear] it’s not like it happened overnight.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Yes, that’s true. Yes, and but the thing is, one interesting thing is, the Information Technology has advanced so much in this age, that if you do, that if you want to spread something effectively through this means, through this medium, you can very effectively spread it. That is one advantage that has been created and I think ultimately it is Caitanya Mahāprabhu arrangement, Kṛṣṇa‘s arrangement. This Information Technology is going to be utilized in the propagation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness very effectively all over the world in a very short span of time. That’s why we are setting up the IT Park. The Information Technology that will be used in spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Somewhere it has to start, may be with a baby stick but somewhere it has to start. Look how effectively they are spreading this information, the atheistic, materialistic information; like they have even reached the villages of India; villages of India are watching today all the channels, you know, like I don’t even remember but those American movies, American ideas are being injected even in the Indian villages. And people are being affected by that. Television is such a powerful medium: everyone is glued to that; the one eyed monster.

Devotee: In some Śaṅkarācārya āśrama they are worshipping Lord Śiva and Kṛṣṇa also. So, they are accepting the Lord in the form or they are just worshipping?

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: You go and ask them again: what’s the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Śiva?

Devotee: Both form. In some āśrama they are worshipping Lord Śiva and in some Lord Kṛṣṇa, even in the Dvārakā temple, the part of the Dvārakā temple is managed by Śaṅkarācārya except the [unclear], So why is it so that they are not accepting the Form?

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: They are accepting the Form. They are saying that they have the Form and you need the Form to meditate you need a Form, but then ultimately all become Brahman. Like, that’s why I asked what is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Śiva, they will say no difference, it’s all Brahman. But if you like Kṛṣṇa you can worship Kṛṣṇa; if you like Śiva, you can worship Śiva; if you like Devī you can worship Devī;

Devotee: In some temple they are worshipping Devī.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Right, right but the thing is that it is not a matter of- the consideration is not matter of worshipping, with what understanding they are worshipping. Their understanding is that ultimately it is all Brahman.  Now that you are not advanced enough you need a form to meditate upon. So, okay focus on that, but ultimately you won’t need the form. When you reach Brahman, the form will disappear, whereas our actual understanding, our actual Vedic understanding is that these forms are eternal. Kṛṣṇa is not a transformation of Brahman, rather Brahman is the bodily effulgence of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is beyond Brahman. There is Brahman but Kṛṣṇa is Parambrahman, origin of Brahman, param brahma param dhāma pavitra parama. So that is the Absolute Truth. You are attending the class does it make sense what we discussed?

Devotee: Yes

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Very Good. Vyāsa what about you? Making sense?

Devotee: Yes.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: Good if you have any question you can ask. Aap ko bhi sahi lag raha hai.

Devotee: Haan.

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: okay, good.

Devotee: [unclear]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: acha

Devotee: [unclear]

His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami: acha, koi agar praśna hai to puch sakte hain. Okay, Hare Kṛṣṇa. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.


Transcription: Anonymous helper

Editing: Rāmānanda Rāya Dāsa

Audio-reference: click here